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Author Topic: Remakes and Remasters  (Read 28195 times)

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Offline cavalcade

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Remakes and Remasters
« Topic Start: February 24, 2011, 04:33:56 PM »
We've got the 3DS inbound with a 3D re imagining of Zelda 64, games(TM) this month bigged up Twin Snakes and I was idly thinking about playing the Resident Evil remake on Gamecube which I've had sitting about for years. March sees Beyond Good and Evil "remastered" in HD, and we've had a handful of releases on PS3 like the GoW Collection and Sly Trilogy which are buffed up versions of old games.

I was fairly sniffy about pure and simple remastered titles, but the Sly Collection/Trilogy (what's it called in the UK?) really sold me on the idea. Three titles on one disk, trophies, spruced up graphics and framerate and a smattering of extras at a near budget price. Yes, you could moan about the loss of BC in the latest PS3s, but I think I'd rather play something like the GoW collection or Sly Collection with genuinely remastered assets rather than a software upscaled job. Of course, are remasters even the same thing as remakes? I guess in a remake, like Twin Snakes, we got entirely new mechanics and cutscenes, which I liked but puritans like Luscan despised. In any case, this generation is perhaps closer than any other generational shift in terms of a progression in gameplay. A top end Xbox title (say Strangers Wrath) still holds up now, and with relatively little effort could be made visually palatable for a HD screen. Indeed, the Hale CE remake due this year is proof of that. But, by the same token, does the slow down in progression mean there's less impetus to remake and remaster previous generation games, as we're flooded with similar games right now. Do you need a Sly HD remake when there's 3 PS3 Ratchet and Clank games?

The NGP, if it's as powerful as claimed offers almost a new type of remake or remastering of existing titles that are sidescaled to fit the device. Portabalised home console games like Uncharted and Lost Planet 2. Probably repurposed old IP and games reshaped to fit the handheld. Is this as valid as the remastering of film or music, or are we seeing unnecessary churn in the videogame industry, as it begins to swallow its own tail in terms of generating content for existing platforms.

Remakes and remasters, which ones do you rate, and which ones do you think should have been left well enough alone? Which remastered/remade titles would you like to see?

Offline Brian Bloodaxe

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #1: February 24, 2011, 05:04:20 PM »
I like them when they are good value like the Sly Trilogy or Beyond Good and Evil in HD for a tenner. The situation with games is different to films because any DVD bought ten years ago will work on a DVD player bought yesterday, the same is not true for ten year old games and new consoles.

The type of re-release we can expect on the NGP though is a different matter. From the look of the games that have been announced so far the handheld won't be able to offer anything different to the gaming experiences we can already play on out 360s and PS3s which leaves me less than excited by the whole prospect.

Offline CheddarFrenzy

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #2: February 24, 2011, 05:25:55 PM »
The Sly trilogy is brilliant - I'd never played them before, and I am thoroughly enjoying them as I work through them.  If all of the updates turn out like that, with care and attention paid to quality games, I'm more than happy to pay 15 quid to play them, despite them being 10 (?) years old. 

There will be awful, careless translations as well though, or translations of below-average games that will not be worth it.  I think it comes down to the fact that a good game is a good game regardless of presentation.  However, our eyes are now used to seeing shiny HD, so if you can repackage good old games for a new audience, I can see nothing wrong with that.  Especially for something like BG&E, where they made a balls up of the original launch, and a whole load of people who would never have played it get persuaded to do so (and it makes a sequel more likely for those of us that did pick it up).

If the original developers get their share of the profits, I can't see a problem with it at all.  I don't think it will stifle creativity any more than it is stifled already - in fact, if the proceeds make it back to the people who are genuinely creative, it might actually provide resources for future games too.

In terms of what next - from the last generation I'd like to see a Final Fantasy X/X-2/XII triple pack, and am looking forward to the Stranger's Wrath and BG&E remakes.  And Ico/SotC as well.  And a widescreen HD Okami would be truly wonderful.  I think the more stylised games would benefit well, especially cel-shaded stuff - something like Dark Chronicle would potentially look lovely in HD.  If I get a 3DS at some point, I will certainly give Ocarina another playthrough, and would like to see Majora's given the same treatment. 

Offline Luscan

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #3: February 24, 2011, 09:10:07 PM »
you just admitted that you would like to see a remake of final fantasy x-2


i'm just gonna let that hang in the air for a bit.

Offline Garwoofoo

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #4: February 25, 2011, 03:29:01 AM »
I'm all for remakes, and I've bought loads of them this generation.  I support backwards compatibility too, and would love to see a situation where the best of gaming's past titles are widely and freely available alongside their newer counterparts - much like the situation with DVDs.  We've come surprisingly close to that in the last few years, closer than I would ever have expected.

In fact there are lots of different types of remakes:

- The straightforward reissue, where a game is made to run on modern hardware but otherwise left unchanged.  We're talking Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on XBLA, or PS1 games being played on the PSP, or the hundreds of games available on the Wii Virtual Console.

- Games which receive a basic sprucing up and a bit of an upscale but are otherwise left largely unchanged.  This covers titles like Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA, Rez HD, God of War I and II, and the Sly collection.

- Enhanced reissues, where the game gets new features that justify its re-release but the essential core of the game is left untouched.  I'm thinking here of Perfect Dark with a solid framerate and online multiplayer, Monkey Island with voice acting, or Metroid Prime Trilogy with new controls.  The Wii has seen quite a few of these (Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Resident Evil etc) which is a little bizarre given that the original titles run 100% perfectly on the same hardware.

- Full remakes: Twin Snakes, the GameCube version of Resident Evil, and my personal favourite of this gen, the PSP version of Final Fantasy Tactics, which received a completely new translation and new content and was essentially completely restored from the mid-90s hack job that constituted its original release.

In fact this is a timely topic because today sees the release of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together on the PSP, another SRPG that's been given a complete makeover and a quality translation.  I'll be hitting the purchase button on that one later today.

Offline Garwoofoo

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #5: February 25, 2011, 03:38:29 AM »
The type of re-release we can expect on the NGP though is a different matter. From the look of the games that have been announced so far the handheld won't be able to offer anything different to the gaming experiences we can already play on out 360s and PS3s which leaves me less than excited by the whole prospect.

Got to call you out on this one I'm afraid, Brian.  Just because the games demonstrated so far (on an early prototype of the machine) have been linked to Sony's big franchises - unsurprisingly really, as it generates interest - doesn't mean that's all the NGP can do.  It's got two touch screens and an accelerometer for a start: they could be used for something completely new that no-one's thought of yet.  Or you could have really high-quality versions of games you enjoy, that you can play on the bus.  It's all good.

Your comment is along the lines of "The DS launched with a version of Mario 64, I'm not interested, it can only do N64 ports".

Offline CheddarFrenzy

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #6: February 25, 2011, 03:47:47 AM »

In fact this is a timely topic because today sees the release of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together on the PSP, another SRPG that's been given a complete makeover and a quality translation.  I'll be hitting the purchase button on that one later today.
Yup, looks great, reckon I might pick this up for holidays in the summer.
you just admitted that you would like to see a remake of final fantasy x-2
i'm just gonna let that hang in the air for a bit.
I think X-2 is a bit harshly treated sometimes, mainly by people who wanted another moaning adolescent hero.  It was completely over the top, but it was fun, the job system worked really well, and the world of Spira was well worth revisiting.  It's not an all time classic, but if I played X through again, I'd have another go at this as well.  Try and get the perfect ending this time round.

Offline Brian Bloodaxe

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #7: February 25, 2011, 05:13:38 AM »
Got to call you out on this one I'm afraid, Brian.  Just because the games demonstrated so far (on an early prototype of the machine) have been linked to Sony's big franchises - unsurprisingly really, as it generates interest - doesn't mean that's all the NGP can do.  It's got two touch screens and an accelerometer for a start: they could be used for something completely new that no-one's thought of yet.  Or you could have really high-quality versions of games you enjoy, that you can play on the bus.  It's all good.

Your comment is along the lines of "The DS launched with a version of Mario 64, I'm not interested, it can only do N64 ports".

I realise there is potential for the NGP to be more than just a handheld PS3, I was just saying that the announcements Sony have made so far have done nothing to grab my interest. Even their stated goal for the NGP (games just like you play on your TV, but in a handheld) suggests that it won''t be offering anything I can't already play. Hopefully the handheld will be more than that, it just struck me as a use of re-releases that I dislike.

Offline Wev

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #8: February 25, 2011, 06:09:09 AM »
I don't see why anyone would have an issue with it, its been going on for years really, as have re-releases. Look at all the "retro packs" that have been released in the past, I certainly remember the Namco Museums on the original PlayStation, not only that but on occassion we see games re-released/made/mastered that maybe didn't hit the market in such a way they maybe deserved to.

Look at Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, originally a SNES title, then remade on PS1 and now remade on PSP, the genre its in is still niche, but most of the people who enjoy that particular genre appear to own PSP's and thus its got a good chance of placing its name amongst the Disgaea's and Final Fantasy Tactics like it (on my current play anyway) appears to deserve.

Offline Ianos

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #9: February 25, 2011, 06:33:20 AM »
There hasn't been an HD collection released yet on PS3 that's made me question why they exist. The Prince Of Persia pack was only a slight upscaling - even the movies were still SD - but the fact it was three quality games for about £20 saved it from hatred.

This may all change when the Mortal Kombat c(k)ollection comes though, even if I am a MK fan from my childhood.

Offline JDubYes

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #10: February 25, 2011, 06:52:49 AM »
Enjoyed - The God of War Collection.

Will be getting - Ico/Shadow Of The Collossus

Am interested in (but may not get because of too many other games/lack of time- The Sly Trilogy, Beyond Good & Evil

Want - Metal Gear Solid 1-3, Resident Evil 1-4 (including Code Veronica (or, if Nintendo don't hold the rights, RE 0-4 including Code Veronica and REmake)). All of those with Trophies would probably render 95% of all other releases in the next year irrelevant to me. Grim Fandango on PSN wouldn't go amiss either, if that counts.

Offline Garwoofoo

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #11: February 25, 2011, 07:02:48 AM »
There are a few games out there that are surely ripe for revisiting, even if only as XBLA ports, and Grim Fandango tops the list.

I'd also really like to see a remake of Thief 1 and 2 (they're bringing out Thief 4, so why not let us play the first two instalments?)  Even a rerelease on Steam or GOG would have me queuing up to throw my money away, as the original games are nigh impossible to get running under a modern OS.

A Metal Gear Solid pack has been heavily rumoured, and I'd actually be tempted to get that - just to see what I've been missing out on all these years.  A Project Zero pack would be brilliant, too - the first two games are superb, I missed the third one as it was PS2-exclusive, and the fourth one never even made it to the West.

Final Fantasy XII, as already mentioned, would be a treat - as indeed would most games released in the last year of the PS2, where ambition outstripped technical capacity  to some extent.  They've already done God of War II and Shadow of the Colossus, so I'm vaguely hopeful on this one.

Some more RPGs and strategy classics on the PSP also, please.  I see this week sees the release of not just Tactics Ogre but also Ys I and II Chronicles, so they are slowly trickling out.

Also, I'm amazed there hasn't been a Wii re-release of Zelda: Wind Waker, with motion controls, widescreen and (hopefully) the missing dungeons restored.  Would sell by the bucketload, I'd imagine.

Basically there's loads of old stuff I'd like to see tidied up and released, and I'd probably play most of it in preference to Modern Shooty Shooty Crate Game 6, or whatever this year's big release is supposed to be.

Offline JDubYes

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #12: February 25, 2011, 07:28:09 AM »
It's actually Modern Shooty Crate Game 8. Try and keep up, gramps.

The Metal Gear Solid pack was heavily rumoured, but there were some murmurings that it'd be Twin Snakes on there rather than an update of the PlayStation original. Bearing in mind that the first game proper is compatible with the PS3 (and available on PSN) anyway I wouldn't be surprised if it was MGS 1-3, Twin Snakes & 2 & 3, or just 2 & 3, depending on licensing issues, which is easier to port, or just laziness. Whatever combo happens, I'm liable to be buying early (I want another crack at MGS3, and am intrigued by the prospect of MGS with Trophies, which is why I'm also hoping that any release also heralds them finally patching Trophies into MGS4 too...).

Oh, and I'd forgotten about the HD remake of Stranger's Wrath. I'll be all over that, too.

Offline Luscan

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #13: February 25, 2011, 08:08:13 AM »
I would shit a full sized, full density brick for a MGS4 engine remake of MG and MG:SS

Offline cavalcade

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Re: Remakes and Remasters
« Reply #14: February 25, 2011, 08:28:15 AM »
There's a MGS collection remake rumoured isn't there? Though people claim they'll be porting Twin Snakes instead of the original.