Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Mass Effect 2, The Official Thread!!1

[Luscan]

2.  Are Bioware the only company who, after displaying "Press Start" on the title screen, actually insist you press start, and not X, or A or whatever.  It's kind of endearing and infuriating in equal measures...

Weirdly I think the TRC is written as a 'You must press start' type of affair and everyone has kind of been adding bonus crazy stuff since then. bioware are probably just doing things 'as written'.

[Wev]

Have to say, one of the things I'm absolutely loving in this is the sound effects. Particularly those of the ships and other vehicles.

The sound effects were probably one of the few strong aspects of the Star Wars prequels and some of the engine noises in Mass Effect 2 are on a par with that.

[Minx]

I find there's something BSG-ish about the SFX in places. I approve though, it's nice and comforting.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Did anyone else think Illium looked like Caprica when they were landing?

[aniki]

I'm hugely enjoying ME2 so far, but there are a couple of things that disappoint me slightly.

Mostly, I'm not sure I like the whole "here are dossiers on the people to recruit" approach to party-building; it would be better if some of them didn't join you in the end, or turned out to be actively hostile when you tried to recruit them.

It also makes the encounters with former squad-mates feel kind of pointless, since, if you don't have a dossier on them, you know that no amount of begging will get them to join you.

The whole "loyalty" thing doesn't seem to have much point to it either; as near as I can tell, they're loyal once you do their side mission, and the choices you make don't matter much to anybody - unlike KotOR2, where you could lose favour with your party members if you said the wrong thing in a conversation.

They're minor complaints though; so much of the game is outstanding, that I can forgive these small things. I especially like the throwaway comments in conversations - I finished talking to a Citadel Groundskeeper at one point, and as I got ready to leave, he recommended that I take a look at the flowers in a specific part of the Presidium because they're just coming into bloom. That's a pointless detail that didn't need anyone to invest the time or effort into it, but it fleshes out the world so well that it ends up making a big difference to the immersion.

[And]

The whole "loyalty" thing doesn't seem to have much point to it either; as near as I can tell, they're loyal once you do their side mission, and the choices you make don't matter much to anybody - unlike KotOR2, where you could lose favour with your party members if you said the wrong thing in a conversation.

So far...

Patience.

[Hapimeses]

Did my back in a couple of days ago, so I've been unable to do anything but play ME2 as I was waited on by Lindsay. Could be worse.

So, I've completed it. Pretty much all the achievements bar 1 (can't be arsed with the higher difficulty level). Had some fun. All-in-all it's, well... it's really good. I suppose. But... But, it was just a bit... I dunno. Weak? Thin on content, certainly. In general, less of the same, but with better environments for the sections outside the primary plot-thread (and there weren't that many).

Sure, I loved importing my ME character. I loved the sounds, the music, (some of) the vistas, the re-creation of the atmosphere of Mass Effect; I smiled through it all and felt a genuine attachment to my Shepherd.

But so much is missing. Or just a bit rubbish.

For example: where has the RPG gone? No inventories worth mentioning. Almost nothing but credits to collect. Far less powers and fun stuff? Far less exploration. Far less, in general. Who decided to make Mass Effect a story-based shooter, and nothing more? I often felt like I was playing Uncharted or Gears with shit mini-games* and a hell of a lot of exposition that led to an ultimately (for me) disappointing end**.

It was all zooming about FFVII-style on a Milky Way area map with precious few locations that made a difference. Then, when you arrive at a 'real' location, it's all wandering through corridors of waist-high obstacles, shooting shit, occasionally stopping in the middle of the action to have a heart-felt chat with someone (or acting like an adolescent 'bad ass', because you're fucking Shepherd, goddammit!). And that's it. It just feels so much smaller. And filled with very-obvious waist-high obstacles.

The largest loss is the removal of one of the worse/best bits of ME: the Mako sections. Driving about dull square-shaped maps of empty space may have been a tad shit, but it linked local quest areas nicely, mixed up the gameplay, and made everything feel so much bigger. It (or something similar?) could have been tweaked to be awesome, much as the squad-based combat was. The loss is, for me, significant. The Milky Way now feels very small. There was absolutely no exploration in the game. It was, for me, less fun, and less Mass Effect than I expected.

But there is worse than this: the tightly controlled recruitment that gives no options; the 'loyalty' system that amounts to simply completing a single mission for each NPC; the invisible walls; the tiny locations; the dull probes; the waist-high walls telegraphing fights, ruining suspense; the daft bits that make no sense***; the very small Citadel (seeing locations I couldn't visit in the Presidium was just a tease too far, especially as I could visit them all in ME1 -- I was left kinda deflated); no grenades; and so, so much more.

Sure, what has been spoon-fed to me is good. Nay, great. For example: the combat is much improved. Yes, I always knew when the fights were about to begin -- I was approaching a bunch of waist-high obstacles (have I mentioned them already?) -- but it worked, and better than ME. The variety of environments is expanded significantly. The UI is much improved over ME, and the load-screens are almost none-existent (on PC -- dunno about 360). And it's largely well-written and acted, and even includes several quality laugh-out-loud moments*** and more Bioware references than you can shake a stick at****. And the plot is brilliant...

Actually, scrape that. The plot was mediocre. Well-scripted, but very average. The end? Well. Yeah. I wasn't impressed. I've read many reviews and opinions. Everyone seems to like the last mission. I didn't. It was, from a gameplay perspective, pretty cool. It terms of the story it was a huge disappointment after the success of ME's conclusion.

Still, I enjoyed it for what it was once I accepted it wasn't what I was expected (which was Mass Effect 1, but bigger and better). Fun game, but one that I wanted to be much, much more -- something akin to the Second Coming of Jesus, or something. Mass Effect then Dragon Age spoiled me, leaving me oddly disappointed with ME2, even though it is, for what it is, a great wee game, albeit very limited. I could have done far worse for my first game of 2010.

Perhaps ME3 will give me some space combat? That'd make things all better.

* Not really a spoiler, but I'll tag it for the anal:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Probes: shit.
Hacking: I play better games of snap with my daughters.
Shooting monkeys: Utterly shit mini-game that made me laugh it was so bad. Waste of 5 minutes of my life.

**End Spoiler

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Super-huge Terminator in space? What? Where's my twist? My clever plot? My stunning, unexpected conclusion?

Ah, there isn't one. The end is just a by-the-rote Hollywood botch-job. Fun to experience, but just a bit crap.

***Geth Spoiler

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Really, what was up with the silly alarm channels on the Geth ship? This, and many similar bits, just ruined the immersion for me.

**** Spoiler about the Scientist

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Gilbert and Sullivan! Just awesome! I will say no more!

***** Minor inventory-based spoiler!

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Squeak! I can buy Boo the Space Hamster! Loved it.

[Hapimeses]

Actually, one extra thing, the thing I missed most was something I had no right to expect: co-op play. Almost every mission I was on made me wish I had a bunch of mates with me. ME2 is very action orientated. Having an online option to play through each of the missions co-op would have been a welcome addition given the derth of RPG aspects to the game. A good balance, at least.

[Alastor]

Hello Hapi!

Agreed on most of your criticisms of the game, though I've not finished the game yet.

Romance spoilers..

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

It turns out you can romance Garrus in this one, what the fuck?!?

I thought the speech option that initiated it was just a joke to tease him...


I am very glad to find out that random planet searching opend up side quests (and they're all really good) I would not have got otherwise, this almost makes up for the utter BS that was the removal of the Mako sections.

[Swallow]

Far less, in general.

But what there is has had some serious thought and unimaginable hours of man-hours put in to make each location and quest something special. I can think of very few resolutional dilemmas from the first game (maybe only Bring Down The Sky and the Rachni Queen) that have had as much emotional weight and required as much thought as those that occur regularly in this game. Likewise, few locations from the first lived on in my memory or made much of an impression, whereas in this there's a mercenary-ran space station containing 8 million people, amongst other, equally believable (it seems funny to say that but I think the incidental moments, conversation and AI really lend a feeling of depth to each location) places you can visit. It's all far, far less identi-kit than the first game, to my mind.

I can't disagree with your assessment of the core structure of the game save to say that it's perfectly possible to get more out of it than the linear, point-to-point, experience. I'm sure you already did though, being the completionist that you are. Even though the game's main narrative seems to suggest the quests are all it has to offer we all know by now that when Bioware are involved that that's surely not the case.

I also think the mini-games are pretty nifty, but a bit more variation would be nice. The limited fuel and probes seems a bit of a misstep but the game has resisted feature-creep very well. Of course, the counter-argument to that is that a lot of features have been stripped out... I enjoyed ME1's inventory and levelling system but I'm also enjoying this one's streamlined approach.

One last note: it's never felt to me like I'm playing a game like Uncharted or Gears. they are the very definition of rollercoaster, unchanging rides. The conversation trees, the active-interrupts and the choice of directing (with rather broad options) where you go next make this game feel like a translation from book to screen of a choose-your-own-adventure story. The choices and gameplay branches aren't limitless but each one is an equally important, equally well-crafted part of the game and all are within relatively easy grasp of every player given a not-too-huge investment of time.

[Swallow]

1.  I'm just about to land on Illium and, despite installing the game to the 360 Hdd, have had to change the discs over.  Can't see any reason for it, has anyone else stumbled across this or got any idea why it's doing it?  Just an artefact from playing it off the disc?

The install to HDD option works in the same way as every other 360 game. The disc is used to certify the content before you play it, hence needing the second disc in the tray when you are using content from it.

Besides, if you didn't need to physically swap discs, you and a friend could both install both discs to your HDD and just keep one disc each. We couldn't have that.

[Hapimeses]

Hello Hapi!

Agreed on most of your criticisms of the game, though I've not finished the game yet.

Romance spoilers..

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

It turns out you can romance Garrus in this one, what the fuck?!?

I thought the speech option that initiated it was just a joke to tease him...
I am very glad to find out that random planet searching opend up side quests (and they're all really good) I would not have got otherwise, this almost makes up for the utter BS that was the removal of the Mako sections.

Hello, Alastor!

Yeah, I really wanted to love this game, which is why I'm so disappointed it's not quite what I expected. Still, good for what it is once I accepted what it is. My problem was I carried my hope right to the end...

Spoiler from the end.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

When you fly through the relay to the collectors there is a big space battle. Given so little had happened so far in terms of innovation in ME2, I secretly hoped for some sort of space combat mini-game as a shock, but welcome, addition to the end. Instead, a sci-fi equivalent of a [D&D]Beholder[/D&D] boards the ship and you have to shoot it with Shepherd and 2 friends.

It's always two friends...

And is the romance spoiler for male and female. I was playing with a female (which made a sort a sense), but if you had a manly Sheperd, then that would be a bit of a surprise...

[Swallow]

If you've not played the game yet DO NOT click on Alastor's spoiler tag. It's more than a romance spoiler.

[Garwoofoo]

I'm not clicking any spoilers - in fact I don't even know why I'm in this thread!

[Hapimeses]

@Swallow:
Yeah, I really enjoyed the variety of the new locations, with some of the best popping up in the optional side-quests (which stands in direct opposition to the crappy side-quest locations on ME1). Yes, some were very limited, and enforced corridors were often in evidence, but the variety helped me ignore this.

However, the gameplay was largely a one-trick pony, unlike ME1, and I was left a little disappointed, especially as the gunplay, for all it is mechanically far better than ME1 and (I found) far easier to control, had far less options. Yes, there's also loads of good scripting, good acting, and some interesting choices to make (one or two I was torn as to how to proceed), but far less than, say, Dragon Age. As I said, I was spoiled walking into this one. I expected much from Bioware because of Mass Effect and Dragon Age. ME2 didn't meet my expectations. It is far smaller than Dragon Age (which was also a game I expected to be a little bigger in scope from the way it was previewed), and has less variety than ME1.

Still, what it tackled it tackled well, and it is a good game. I'm glad I played it and I've certainly had my money's worth out of it. Still, I'd've preferred if more of ME1 had made it through to the second game. I'm sure it will be a far better game for many because of it's changes, but it wasn't for me.

[Brian Bloodaxe]

So we are looking forward to Bioware finishing the trilogy with a game featuring the Inventory, galaxy spanning exploration and Mako sections of the first game with the scenery and mechanics of combat of the second game?

[Swallow]

Well, the Hammerhead vehicle will be coming out as DLC soon, so presumably there'll be new areas to explore with that added as well.

[Hapimeses]

Nice. I didn't know that. I'll be buying that!

Also, I didn't mention that there is ammo in ME2, which proved to be another little bugbear (I liked the heating mechanic of ME); that said, it did force me to use different weapons more often, so it's not all bad. In shooters, I tend to stick with favourites and rarely stray, but the limited ammo had me cycling through different weapons for different enemies and different defences. I ended up far more efficient in the end.

However, once I mastered the biotics and speeded up the cool-down times, it all became a little academic. The biotics really dominated once I got to grips with them. Ended up that I barely used ammo at all for the last third of the game. Ultimately, with that in mind, it made me question the point of the ammo at all as I left entire ships, space stations, and planets stacked high with uncollected ammo clips.

[JDubYes]

Is any reason given for the ammo thing? It's just that seems a bit daft, in terms of both canon and gameplay (I liked the overheating mechanic too).

Maybe R&D works backwards in the Mass Effect universe, and you'll be made Captain of a galleon in ME3...

[Swallow]

It's to stop fights turning into repetitive wars of attrition. It does the job quite well.

[JDubYes]

It's to stop fights turning into repetitive wars of attrition. It does the job quite well.

That makes sense I suppose, and I'm not in a position to judge the effect on gameplay, but that kind of thing irritates me. If I were a soldier in the far future who was suddenly forced to use guns requiring physical ammo rather than the ones with unlimited ammo I'd been using half a decade previously, I imagine I'd probably be quite annoyed.

Basically - I wondered if there was a plot development, or similar, which adequately explained the change.