Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Mass Effect 2, The Official Thread!!1

[Swallow]

Surely one of your choices would have made a huge impact on Tuchanka, at least? Aside from that, I think the incidental touches (e-mails, news broadcasts that involve the characters) are as equally touching as the few grand-standing moments that tie into the first game.

[Hapimeses]

Hmm, maybe I made the same choice for both playthroughs that influenced Tuchanka. I made most of the choices differently, but one or two slipped through (such as the whole Rachni thing, which I accidentally did the same on both playthroughs).

Can you spoiler up the differences? So far all I've had is emails and news broadcasts, as well as a couple of NPCs, but the same quests were given (if there were any), regardless. For example (minor spoiler from Ilium and a big one from the end of ME):

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In my Paragon playthrough I saved the Asari influenced by the Thorian, and met her on Illium. She was a quest-giver (and green) asking for my help regarding an issue with the long term health of the colonists I saved. In the Renegade playthrough, the Assari was dead, so I instead met a colonist spounting pretty much the same stuff, offering the same quest, kinda making the choice I made regarding her life redundant.

That's just one of the many supposed differences that amount to absolutely nothing in terms of impact to the game.

The biggest 'lack of difference' that bugged me was the disregard for the potential differences between an all-human council and the old council, even when I went to meet Anderson. Pretty much all the same dialogue, all the same people, barring a very short meeting with the council if I saved them. I was unimpressed. I hoped for so much more in the Citadel.

[Swallow]

I only ever made the same decision in the first game of

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saving Wrex

so I don't know how the partiular loyalty mission plays out if you went for the other option. I'll have a look round though, as I'd be interested to see how they worked it.

As you say the incidental touches don't really affect the gameplay but the fact that the combination of them makes each person's playthrough of the game unique is a very compelling storytelling device, in my opinion.

It should be noted that I haven't even reached Ilium yet.

[Hapimeses]

Ah, oops, avoid my spoiler then. I'll go tag that. Sorry.



It's probably my favourite primary location. Lots of fun stuff to mess about with there.

[Swallow]

I wasn't saying that you'd spoiled the game for me! I was just saying I haven't had the chance to be disappointed by the lack of integration from previous choices, perhaps due to the fact I'm not very far through the game, and maybe I will be as the story develops.

[CheddarFrenzy]

As you say the incidental touches don't really affect the gameplay but the fact that the combination of them makes each person's playthrough of the game unique is a very compelling storytelling device, in my opinion.

I agree with this. It really feels like my game of ME2, following on from my game of ME1. Despite (presumably) nothing earth shattering happening differently, all the little things add up to make something that feels very customised.

Hapi - hahaha can't believe your Justicar spoiler! Most amusing. Dirty cheating lazy devs...

[Hapimeses]

I agree with this.  It really feels like my game of ME2, following on from my game of ME1.  Despite (presumably) nothing earth shattering happening differently, all the little things add up to make something that feels very customised.

Hapi - hahaha can't believe your Justicar spoiler!  Most amusing.  Dirty cheating lazy devs...

Yeah, it made me laugh.



And I absolutely agree with both of you that ME2 very much feels like a continutaion of the first game, and your choices seem to have made a difference. My gripe was that both my playthroughs of the game are effectively identical, leaving me feeling a little like all the important choices I made weren't really that important after all. I'm two missions from the end on the second go, so I'm not expecting much will change now.

That said, I'm still hoping the choices (even those from ME1) will be pretty important in ME3. In particular, I have a feeling it may all go a bit Dragon Age at the end, in that the various allies you gather as you go will join up in the last game for a big bad-guy bash. Then the choices you make really might make a difference.

For example (ME spoiler, and very minor ME2 spoiler):

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No Rachni: No help from the Rachni (which is vaguely hinted will be coming in ME2) in the inevitable big battle with the Reapers.

[Hapimeses]

I now have the after-game blues. For all my complaints, I really enjoyed ME2, and am pretty sad it's all over. I could replay it again for the last two achievements, but I don't have the dedication, time, or patience. Perhaps later in the year.

As I expected (Justicar Spoiler):

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I slept with the bad girl and died (although, as Critical Mission Failures go, I wasn't complaining). It was amusing.

All-in-all, a good wee game, but it's not really an RPG anymore. It's more a (poor-man's) interactive dating sim with Gears segments breaking it all up, all handily pushed forward by an epic, but not very good, plot. It may not have the extreme awesomeness of Gears, or co-op (and it should), but it does allow for far more customisation of the characters than pretty much all 3rd-person shooters, and that really adds to the game. Add a tight artist direction which makes the very most of the functional graphics, some limited but well-scripted conversation trees, and some limited wandering around, and we have ME2. Still, for all that may not sound that exciting, I've really enjoyed my time with it, and am really looking forward to the DLC.

Back to Dragon Age, I think. I have DLC to play, and a PS3 version to romp through.

[cavalcade]

Does the PC version of ME2 have GFW Live achievements? Or are they sort of proprietary in game things?

[Hapimeses]

Nope, no Live achievements, just in-game ones. They're a bit crap, and obviously just a reflection of what's available on 360. Still, something to chase; I have them all bar 2, primarily as they are much easier to collect than the ME achievements.

Actually, I've noticed far fewer PC games shipping with GFW Live achievements, lately. Looks like Microsoft are largely giving up on them (however, they'll probably go and prove me wrong since I typed that); the last game I purchased with them was Dawn of War II.

The Dragon Age achievements are handled better. There are far more than there are in the console version, and they upload to your Bioware account so you can compare and contrast, or boast, or whatever. I quite like those ones; though, as should be expected, prefer the trophies on the PS3 version.

[Luscan]

Does the PC version of ME2 have GFW Live achievements? Or are they sort of proprietary in game things?

I once read a rather interesting few paragraphs written by the leads on the Splinter Cell games about GFWL. I will attempt to condense them here.

"No one has ever not bought Splinter Cell because it has Tom Clancy written on the box. Some people might have bought Splinter Cell because it has Tom Clancy written on the box. No one has ever bought a Games for Windows Live game because it has Games for Windows Live written on the box. Some people might have intentionally avoided buying a game because it has Games for Windows Live written on the box."

[aniki]

I did Mordin's loyalty mission last night, and something about it annoyed me.

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The whole way through the krogan hospital, when we found evidence of experimentation on live subjects, Mordin made excuses about it being necessary and insisted that since it didn't kill any krogan directly then he wasn't responsible for any deaths that occurred, while Shepard was giving Mordin a hard time about the genophage equating to mass-murder, and how terrible it was.

Then, when we got to the end and met up with Mordin's former student, Maelon, he was insisting that the genophage was basically mass-murder and a terrible thing, while Shepard defended it as necessary and not really all that bad since it didn't kill any krogan directly.

That struck me as incredibly lazy - or at least highly inconsistent - writing. Surely they could've come up with a more consistent position for Shepard to take?

[And]

So, although I’ve been trying to keep my interwebs browsage at a minimum while at work, I have been following the coverage of ME2 and as a result been browsing the thread (subsequently threads) on here.

First off, I’ve only just got to

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Coruscant Ilium and only done 1 of the loyalty missions other than Zaeed

so I’m not a huge way into the game. This is one of those rare games that makes me wish I could just bunker in and do nothing but crack through it, problem is that real world responsibilities mean that I can’t, so I’m savouring it, like a fine malt. I think ultimately taking my time does this game justice, it would somehow be a crime to rip through and devour it like a cheap happimeal.

I think that it’s a fine game, and a more than worthy successor to the second. I cannot understand how anyone prefers the first game to the second.
I played through the first one twice, once as And Shepard, a paragon male soldier, I got 2 of the “vast majority” achievements and mainly followed the path of righteousness,

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I spared the rachni, I sweet talked wrex, I helped Tali, I let Ashley die, (for the mission), I fucked Liara, also let the council die, (Also for the mission) and I did lots and lots and lots of sidequests and mako driving.

The second playthrough was with Andi Shepard, ruthless female biotic with a renegade streak a mile wide. I augmented her powers with a specialism in assault rifles, so combat was still satisfying. Where my first playthrough approach would be diplomacy and tact, well, Andi found you get further by sticking guns in people’s faces and calling them cunts until they squeal.
So, in character,

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I flushed the rachni, I plugged wrex in the face, I screwed tali over, I let Ashley die, (racist cow) because I wanted to, and subsequently did, fuck Alenko, but only after leading on Liara for the off chance of some girl on girl.

I did virtually no side missions outside of messing around in the citadel.

I enjoyed both playthroughs immensely.

So I started ME2 with the paragon, coming in with a level 50 save gave

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me a bunch of cash and a couple of skill points which was nice.

So far my actions in the first game are all around

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, from meeting old friends to getting update mails from people I helped. The citadels new government seems a bit Fucked and I can’t help but feel I should maybe have saved the council, or at least put udina in charge, Anderson seems too soft. I’ve just had a message from the Rachni Queen and shot that tool Conrad Werner in the foot.

I’ve seen lots of love for this game around but there are some astonishing criticisms of this game, several of which coming up here.

So:

No Mako
Despite being told by Bioware that they had got rid of it, people are still complaining. I just don’t get it, it was a terrible vehicle, poor to control and just used to flesh out levels. It added filler to missions. If the combat in 1 had been sharper I would have much preferred taking on enemies as a squad rather than repeatedly spamming missile and jump to take out packs of baddies.

Also the removal of the mako has made the side quests and unexplored planets a bit more appealing.
In my first playthrough of ME I visited every planet. I lost count of the number of times I would drive halfway around a planet to a beacon only to find an artefact or resource that I did not have a sufficient level of hacking or decryption to access. I suppose the intent was that you would write down the name of the planet in your little RPG notebook and come back and get the object again in the future when you were able. Like fuck you will.

The scanning minigame thing in ME 2 is not exactly thrilling but it’s better than trying to drive the mako over the Himalayas.


No inventory.
Not strictly true, you have inventory and can change weapons and armour, just not at will. Now I like a good inventory as much as the last guy, but ME1’s was not good. There’s few weapon or armour pickups this time. So while I miss the added layer of on the hoof tinkering I like how now there isn’t the need to plough through hundreds of similar objects in a cluttered inventory to flog whenever you get the chance. This is good, a simplified inventory streamlines the game, and now there’s none of that omnigel bollocks. Omnigel - like WD40 on steroids, and completely rubbish.
If managing a crap inventory is what you want out of a RPG i think you are missing the point, for me a game like this lives or dies on its ability to suck you into the characters lives and decisions and also to provide the player with a fully living world, for me the ME games are up there with fallout 3 for this. I'd say the environments I have visited so far are better than the first, more populated, more alive.

Decisions made in 1 don’t have an impact in 2.
Well, I’m not finished but the story from one seems pretty well integrated to me. See spoilered bits above for further.

Ammo.
I like having Ammo, The guns in 1 were rubbish, no weight to them, no punch, the best one was the geth assault rifle, even though you couldn’t upgrade it, and if you weren’t playing as soldier it didn’t really matter. My Biotic playthrough of 1 only ever used the pistol, and that was fine. My soldier playthrough toyed with other weapons as part of the achievement but really you only need the assault rifle, or shotgun for close quarters.
Now that the infinite ammo has been dropped it makes the game a bit more tactical, for 2 reasons
The first being that you have different guns able to handle different enemy types, some good on armour, some on shields etc.
The second is that you can run out, so certain encounters where you could have easily sat still and plugged enemies as they came towards you became harder and more satisfying by you having to go and forage for bullets mid fight. This encourages you to use our squadmates to flank the enemy and push forward, where in the last one they had certain lemming like tendencies so I’d more often than not park them out of harms way.
The bleating going on about retconning and all that noise misses the point, the dev’s have taken an aspect of the game and improved it.

Cover
There is apparently too much handily placed cover, in a game with a cover based shooting mechanic. Fancy that. Such lazy developers. Putting cover in sections that you need to use cover. Actually I have the same problem with forza 3, each time i start a race a big ring of tarmac appears for me to drive the car on. Lazy developers. Such a cliché.

So in short you get all of what made the first one great, a cheesey space opera with great dialogue and interactions with streamlined combat and a soundtrack that pinches the best from star wars, star trek and bladerunner. Win.

[aniki]

I miss the Mako. Driving across a frozen wasteland or a desert felt like exploring. Scanning the surface of a planet does not.

[And]

I miss the Mako. Driving across a frozen wasteland or a desert felt like exploring. Scanning the surface of a planet does not.

Depends on what you expect from exploration, pointless wandering around an empty planet for little or no reward is not a hugely fun activity for me. The whole point of exploration for me is discovery.

Imagine you are a space ship captain in the future. You exist in a universe where you have a supremely advanced and powerful interstellar craft capable of pinging halfway across the galaxy at a whim, You can move objects with your mind and have a pew pew laser gun.
Is it not something of a discrepancy to pop into orbit and say to the crew :

Space captain : “right there’s something down there I can see it on the scanner, we are going down there to figure it out”
Disposable Ensign Bob: “yes sir, I see it, shall I prep the mako for drop?”
Space captain : “Make it so, but don’t drop me on top of the item, drop me miles away with some incredibly steep terrain in the way, and preferably with a thresher maw too”
Disposable Ensign Bob: “Sir yes sir,”

Cut to planet surface:
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 1: “Are we nearly there yet?”
Space captain : “Just another 5 minutes”
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 2: “Are we nearly there yet?”
Space captain : “Just another 5 minutes”
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 1: “Are we nearly there yet?”
Space captain : “Buddy, I will shoot you in the face”

Some time later
Space captain : “Right, we are here, everyone out”
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 2: “It’s an old cargo pod”
Space captain : “Well what’s in it? It had better be something awesome to have taken such an effort to find”
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 2: “I can’t open it, my decryption skill is too low”
Space captain : “What? You are crap, oh well, load it into my space 1999 car here and we’ll store it in the cargo hold until we can open it”
Funny shaped headed alien sidekick 2: “Erm,”
Space captain : “Oh FFS”

[JDubYes]

Valid points about ammo and cover.

The only thing I would say about this (as a person fully qualified to discuss the game, having never played it) is that retconning and oddly placed objects-that-can-be-used-as-cover can be real immersion breakers for me in some games. It's going to be hard for creators to avoid sometimes, and it's one of those things you can let go (like characters having storage akin to Mary Poppin's handbag on their person) within reason, but there's a limit.

Again, can't say/don't know exactly how either affects Mass Effect 2, I'm just saying...

[Garwoofoo]

I think ultimately taking my time does this game justice, it would somehow be a crime to rip through and devour it like a cheap happimeal.

Welcome back, And.

[And]

The only thing I would say about this (as a person fully qualified to discuss the game, having never played it) is that retconning and oddly placed objects-that-can-be-used-as-cover can be real immersion breakers for me in some games. It's going to be hard for creators to avoid sometimes, and it's one of those things you can let go (like characters having storage akin to Mary Poppin's handbag on their person) within reason, but there's a limit.

Again, can't say/don't know exactly how either affects Mass Effect 2, I'm just saying...

Well there are loads of objects you could use as cover throughout the game, you don't because you are too busy chatting up secret agents or buying space gerbils.

You only notice them because they are in the game when you need to take cover.

On my walk to the station I must go past about 100 houses, each has a wall or fence with 3 sides to them, each has a car or two, there are concrete waste bins, metal phone and cable box thingies, railings, steps, all manner of things that you could, if you felt like, crouch behind. You would look like a mental, but the real world is full of oddly placed waist high objects. Nobody complained that Rainbow six vegas had too much cover on the levels, because the levels just looked like real world environments.

So complaining that there are boxes and conveyer belts placed in the warehouse of a space station seems a bit churlish.

That aside, complaining that a cover based shooter has cover in it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of "game".

[JDubYes]

Agreed on all counts (particularly on how well cover/the lack of was largely very natural and well integrated into R6V). The type of random cover I mean is more along the lines of "What?! Why the hell are there a bunch of small waist-high walls in the middle of this field?" or when there's a bunch of handily placed metal barriers put in the middle of a room for no reason that would make logical sense in any real-world situation.

Like I said, I've no idea whether it's there/an immersion breaker in ME2, just offering an alternative viewpoint, partially based on how apparently the sudden appearance of an abundance of cover alerts you to an incoming firefight. Yes, in one sense it could be considered quite helpful, but in another it could be considered immersion-breaking.

[And]

stuff

You obviously havent played GoW 2, there's sections were you can raise and lower cover out of the floor with a lever.

I know. Daft.

Doesn't matter, it's a daft game and it just helps you play and have fun.